I've mostly given up e-mail these days, but every few months I wade through the backlog and send out a few really, REALLY late replies. Anyhoo, here's one exchange I think some of you might find interesting.
[Jeanne's original e-mail has been edited for privacy & brevity]
Hey, Jen -
I would like to start a blog and possibly set myself on a road that leads to writing for a living. You're the only blog I regularly follow, and certainly the only one I would trust, so I am asking you for any advice you may give.
My viewpoint is of a New Orleanian, cake decorating, Mother of a daughter with a smattering of Medical Clerical perspective, makeup enthusiasm, Movie fanatic, etc. Which is one of my questions: How off putting would it be for me to have a multifaceted perspective?
- Jeanne
****
Hi, Jeanne!
It's definitely a tough time to break into blogging for a living right now, but I still recommend it to anyone who wants to start. It can be hugely rewarding on a personal level, both as a creative outlet and for making connections with people online. I'd just caution you against any financial expectations, since even pro bloggers like me are really struggling right now.
(Our revenue has steadily and dramatically decreased - even while our readership has *increased* - over the years. Unfortunately online advertisers only pay a fraction of what they used to these days, as they've figure out that traditional ads just don't work.)
It's definitely a tough time to break into blogging for a living right now, but I still recommend it to anyone who wants to start. It can be hugely rewarding on a personal level, both as a creative outlet and for making connections with people online. I'd just caution you against any financial expectations, since even pro bloggers like me are really struggling right now.
(Our revenue has steadily and dramatically decreased - even while our readership has *increased* - over the years. Unfortunately online advertisers only pay a fraction of what they used to these days, as they've figure out that traditional ads just don't work.)
Note: Since I know the financial aspects are probably what interest you guys the most, I went back and added in this next bit for here on the blog:
I don't have exact numbers for you, but with Cake Wrecks, John and I made maybe 30 to 40% last year of what we did our first full year of blogging back in 2009. That's a 60 to 70% decrease, all while we had MORE traffic, not less. If we'd maintained the same traffic levels I'd guess we'd be making maybe a quarter of what we did then, if not less.
Of course, 2009 was right at the tail end of the golden age of blogging, when the money was, to be frank, stupid good. Advertisers still thought banner ads worked back then, and they were throwing money all OVER the place to get them. It was crazy, and memories and rumors of those massive paychecks are still fueling bloggers' dreams now. But the truth is that golden age is over, and even the biggest websites are scrambling to hold on to what little revenue they have left. And since advertisers know banner and side ads don't work now, they're paying less while demanding more. Instead of static graphics tucked off in the sidebar, they want obnoxious pop-up videos and sponsored posts and reviews, which require bloggers like me to make some sticky ethical decisions. (I've never done a sponsored review post, and I opt out of every video ad BlogHer lets me, but I count myself lucky to be able to afford to do that.)
I also make a little here with Epbot - enough to justify my time, I think, though I'd keep writing it anyway - but even with Epbot's growth CW still has roughly five times this readership, which makes it the only real bread-winner.
John and I can still live off the blogs because of CW's huge amount of traffic, and because we were smart with the money we made early on, saving a lot and keeping our living expenses low. So even though revenue continues to go down each month, we'll be ok for a good long while yet.
Ok, now back to the general blogging advice stuff:
I know it sounds kinda crazy, but I still like Blogger as a platform versus, say, WordPress. Blogger is user-friendly, free, perfect for newbies, and will never crash no matter how much traffic you get. We switched Cake Wrecks over to SquareSpace several years back because Blogger wasn't always showing all our pictures, and because John was convinced it'd be better. The fact that I've left Epbot here on Blogger will probably tell you what I think of the switch, though. Heh.
The blogging gurus out there will tell you that niche blogs are the only way to success, and they DO have a point. If someone can't easily pigeon-hole your blog, it's harder to share with like-minded communities, like, say, makeup or fashion bloggers. That said, write what you love. Just do it. If that means you combine movie reviews with cake decorating, so be it. Genuine, enthusiastic, and entertaining personalities will always win out over niche blogs. And in the end, you should be doing this more for love anyway, so don't chase popularity at the expense of your own fun.
Hope that helps a little, and best of luck with the new blog!
- Jen
So, fellow bloggers, how'd I do? Any advice for Jeanne? Chime in in the comments!
*****
Update: Thought this was a great question in the comments:
Ironically, popups and obnoxious video ads are why I use an ad-blocker. If they had stuck with just banners and side ads, I'd be viewing them right now.
ReplyDeleteOr, honestly, maybe now, since I know of several sites who's banner ads were downloading 'drive by' viruses to their viewers' computers.
Safe, unintrusive ads are good, but the Internet is not a safe place, so I take precautions.
Speaking as a baking blogger, making money on my blog is not easy, and after three years of blogging, it hasn't gotten any easier.
ReplyDeleteThe first thing you need to do is drive traffic your way. Posting consistently good material on a regular schedule is the most basic way to do that. I know a lot of bloggers who promote their blogs like its their job, with blog hops and group shares. Those certainly help. Joining a blogging group is great because you meet people who have experience with what you want to do and they can help you along the way. Develop a core group of blogger friends and that makes things so much easier. Social media is good for driving traffic too, twitter, facebook (though less so recently), pinterest is good if you've got good pictures
Ads make some money, so you'll want to get into an ad program. You want one that pays per view, not per click, with a higher CPM. Just starting out, you won't be able to get into the best programs, but I can recommend sovrn (formerly Lijit), since they let you set your own CPM rate and allow you to have other ads in conjunction to theirs (like Google Adsense, if you're on Blogger).
Affiliate programs (like Amazon) are also a good way to make some money, especially if you're always linking to something or recommending a product, just make sure it's available in your state. Once you're established, you can also look for sponsors. I have a working relationship with Post cereal. Mostly what that means is I haven't had to pay for cereal in over a year, but you can always work out a fee to be paid in money and not breakfast food. I feel like sponsorships are a slippery slope, but there are collective biases out there that help you connect with sponsors (most require a minimum of 10k pageviews per month to join).
For my part, I hate promoting, so I know my blog is always going to be on the small side, meaning it's never going to make a lot, and certainly not enough to live on. I also lucked out with a post I did on a whim going viral on Pinterest, so I still get a lot of mileage out of that. But I agree with Jen that if it's something you want to do, you should definitely do it. Just don't get disheartened the first couple of months if it seems like nobody's reading. It takes time to get some traction.
I've only been blogging for a year and a half, but for me, the intent was never to start a blog to make any money. I began simply because blogging sounded fun! And since then, I have made some great internet/blog friends and connecting with them and new readers is what keeps me doing it! But bottom line; if your heart isn't it it, I don't think it will be successful, and probably not much fun either!
ReplyDeleteas a reader I have to say I hate blogger, because I'm typing this comment not knowing whether or not blogger will actually allow me to post it - I have a 50/50 sucess rate. either blogger tells me the comment has been acepted for moderation or it keeps cycling me round and round asking me to verify, and t seems entirely random
ReplyDeleteaand it just cycled me round three times asking me to publish, and wouldn't do so until I changed my user ID.
DeleteI would like to reiterate that I really really hate blogger as a platform, not user friendly
Commenting is definitely my #1 complaint with Blogger, since I hear the same thing from a lot of readers. Really wish they'd get their act together on that count!
DeleteI actaully tried to get a blogger blog many years ago, but ended up at wordpress becuase blogger did exactly the same thing when I tried to get a blog. I tried three different computers (pc, laptop, mac) at three different ip adresses, and it just sent me round and round until I started screaming. Most of the time when it refuses my comments it's because I'm trying to use my wp ID, but if I leave a comment on another embroidery blog I need to identify myself as opusanglicanum, otherwise no one knows who I am
DeleteI have a friend, a new mom, who on Facebook recently asked the question "Would it be helpful if I started a mommy blog?"
ReplyDeleteI'm a novice blogger (and haven't made a cent in the year I've been writing my geeky-mommy blog), but I still offered her my opinion: that blogging needs to be FOR YOU. Competition is fierce; money is scarce; promoting is time-consuming but necessary to grow (which is why I haven't). Don't set out with the expectation of immediate followers, much less an income. Blog because you love it, and because you love what you write about. If people are attracted to your passion, THEN consider making it a business.
As far as being too "niche", my two cents is that the more facets, the better. There are two blogs I follow regularly: I read every post here on Epbot, even though I don't share every love of Jen's, and I read about half the posts on the other blog, as the others are well outside my interests (but the half I do read are RIGHT up my alley!). You may have some readers who like enough of what you write to read it all, and some who tune in only for your posts of a specific genre. That's okay. I think it's better to have some posts that appeal more to this or that group, than to dial yourself down into blandness.
The most appealing thing in a blog is genuine passion, for writing and for your subject matter. Start there.
I've been blogging for over five years now. It's always been small for me and I've never made a penny off of it. You have to do it for you. I tried pushing to get the views up so I could approach an ad company, but the stress of always having to come up with a new craft (my niche) on a set schedule was a bit over whelming. I found myself making things I didn't want to make and doing crafts for the sake of the post and not because I wanted the item in my home.
ReplyDeleteReally, you have to do it for you and you have love it, otherwise you might as well not even bother.
A follow-on question is how many page views do you need before you can monetize your blog at all? I've always blogged for myself, not money, but hey, why not?
ReplyDeleteWell, to give you an idea, an average ad will probably get you about 50 cents per thousand page views per day. So if you have, say, four ads on the site, that means $2 per thousand page views per day.
DeleteAnd it's best to be part of an ad network, like BlogHer, though some may still have page view requirements before they'll let you join. Do your research, and be prepared to try out a lot of different ads and networks before you find ones that work for you.
I'd also recommend looking into affiliate links, like with Amazon, which give you a small commission, and/or selling your own ads, which cuts out the middle man. (Some day I'd like to do that here on Epbot; I've just been too lazy up 'til now.)
So does that mean that those of us who have you on rss feed, aren't actually contributing, since we don't land on the page and see the ads?
DeleteI recently (well, a few years ago) got really into nail polish. I went from owning 10 bottles to owning almost 200 over the last 2 years (if that seems like a lot, some bloggers I follow have several thousand!). I follow a lot of nail art and swatch blogs, via Facebook and, more recently, Instagram.
ReplyDeleteMy friends have been pushing me to start a blog (probably because they're sick of getting pictures of my nails, haha), but I'm pretty reticent. Even doing my nails just about every week, I'm still not great, and certainly not as good as the blogs I follow. I don't feel like I really have anything interesting to say, other than, "Hey look what I did! I'm pretty proud of this." Plus, most of the nail blogs I follow seem like running the blog and having posts to post pretty much takes up all their time, not to mention that a lot of bloggers seem to burn out if they work on the blog as much as it takes to really reach a large number of readers and put out posts regularly. I just don't have the time or energy to spend that much time putting stuff on the interwebs that, most likely, no one will look at.
As I said, I recently joined Instagram, mostly to follow the nail artists that either don't use Facebook/a regular blog or just to have another way to keep up with their posts, since Facebook isn't the greatest about getting small businesses'/blogs' stuff out there. A lot of the bloggers I follow have started selling indie polishes, so Instagram is a great way to keep up with new releases and pictures. I think if I was going to start posting pictures regularly, I would just stick with Instagram. Seems like a bit less work, which works better for my situation. Granted, I'm not trying to make any money, I'm mostly trying to find another outlet to share my nail art without constantly spamming my friends, lol.
I was a casual nail blogger for a while.
DeleteIt does take a lot of time. Doing your nails is just part of it. Photos, editing, writing, promoting.. It was a massive time sink all for something you're already paying into. Unless you're working with a lot of brands (which is hard to break into) you'll most likely be spending more than you're making back.
I still do it sometimes. But it's more about showing off the pretties and less about the money (what little there is).
I've mentioned this before on Twitter, but I strongly believe that Patreon is the way of the future for bloggers. As you rightly point out, advertising just doesn't cut it, and it's annoying to boot. The big advantage with Patreon is that you don't need huge numbers of page views to make a decent amount of money -- all you need is a small core group of people who are willing to support your creative output.
ReplyDeleteSo for instance, Jen, I bet you would make a killing if you started a Patreon for Epbot and/or CW. I would totally support you, and I'm willing to bet a lot of others would as well.
Aw, thanks, David!
DeleteI like how Patreon puts control back in the hands of creators, but I have to admit it freaks me out to think of having such a public record of both supporters and the amount of money they might give me. I can just see myself writing a total bomb of a post, and people sniping about how "she made X amount of dollars to write THIS CRAP?!"
Even non-supporters can see your income, so talk about ammunition for haters! Total strangers would be discussing how much I "deserve" to make, and if I ever exceeded that amount, even real fans would stop supporting me, because now I make "enough."
Or, on the flip side, I could get no support at all, and look pathetic - big eyes and hat-in-hand kind of deal. I'm not too proud to admit that I am extremely proud, and I still have these personal quirks about privacy and/or ever being seen as begging. John and I go around on this pretty often now, since personal support-raising is the way of the online world now, but I'm still pretty old-school in never wanting to solicit money from readers, ever. (If you guys had only heard the discussions over here re: our Amazon linkage on CW. Ha!)
So, yeah, that's my long-winded way of saying I love what Patreon is doing, but I just can't see myself signing up.
Thanks for the response! I definitely understand the feeling that you're putting yourself out there with Patreon in a way that you don't with advertising, and how that can be really uncomfortable. There's one reason why I press the issue a little bit (hopefully I'm not pressing too hard):
DeleteAs one of the other commenters mentioned, I use ad-blocking software. I do this for a variety of reasons: one is computer safety. Many, many viruses are transmitted via third-party advertisements, and I'm not willing to unblock even sites that I like to open up my computers to that vector of attack. The other reasons are philosophical, and I don't really need to go into detail here. That said, this means there are sites on the Internet (like yours) that I think produce really valuable content, and which I would like to support but can't.
If you're concerned with the visibility of Patreon, another full-time blogger that I follow has had a "Donate" button set up through PayPal. That way people can support the creative content you produce anonymously, and you don't have to reveal your income to the world. This blogger also went through a phase where he had both advertisments and a donate option on his blog, so he didn't have to worry about suddenly making zero dollars from advertising. I don't know if that's more palatable or not to you, but something like an unobtrusive "Donate" button may be more like your Amazon affiliate link and less pledge-drivey than Patreon is.
Anyways, I know you've thought about these issues a lot on your own already, and I don't want to rehash tired ground, so I'll stop talking about it now. I just wanted to give a perspective of an avid follower of your work who doesn't comment too often. Thank you for all you do! :)
You raise some great points, and I appreciate the perspective. Maybe I'll try out an affiliate link & a small donate button this year. Maybe. ;)
DeleteAnd I can't blame you a bit on the ad-block thing, since even the most conscientious bloggers & networks get hit with remnant ad viruses, which, speaking from experience, SUUUUCKS. Yet another reason for us bloggers to get off the ad network wagon and find our own way.
So when will the advertisers realize that those obnoxious pop-over ads also don't work, and in fact can piss people off such that they decide *against* buying the product? Let's face it, people are so inundated w/ ads all over the place that we've learned to tune them out. You can send a brass band marching across the screen but that won't get people to buy your crap.
ReplyDeleteI'm one that does that. If ads make me unable to enjoy a website I love, I will refuse to purchase that product. I have no issue watching commercials or viewing ads before enjoying a website, but if an ad makes me unable to view a site once I'm there and it was obviously designed that way? You've lost me as a buyer.
Delete*By 'you' I mean Toyota or whoever, not you Jen. <3
ReplyDeleteJen have you considered selling something like kits to make some of the crafts you've demonstrated? I think people would be interested. One of the blogs I follow, freshstitches.com, works to inspire people and help them with making the crochet amigurumi patterns she sells. It's a different balance of revenue streams than what you have, but I think it has potential.
ReplyDeleteJohn and I have considered all *kinds* of options, from selling stuff I make to kits to digital blueprints, like the AT-AT rocker. Any and all of those require a lot more time, effort, and stress, though, so it's hard to say if it'd be worth it. Plus I bore quickly, and want to move on the next project as soon as I finish the last, so sticking with something long enough to make multiples to sell has always seemed like near-torture to me. :D
DeleteDigital plans seem like the most stress-free option, so assuming John and I come up with more building projects that would require them, I'm sure we'll try to offer more of those in the future. Even those take a lot of time to make, though, and that's time away from current projects, writing, etc. etc. It's all quite the balancing act!
Hey Jen, this seems as good a place as any to bring this up: have you given any thought to mobile platforms? I do at least 50% of my web surfing (do they even still call it that?) from my phone and alas, Epbot is super not mobile friendly.
ReplyDeleteAck, really? I always thought Blogger's default mobile design was pretty decent, but I admit I always visit Epbot in the non-mobile format on my phone. I'll have to go look that up now. (Chalk that up to another trial of using a free service - and developing your own mobile app takes money & time. Still, that's definitely something I'll want to address, so thanks for mentioning it.)
DeleteThere is a girl who does Youtube videos on makeup, nail polish, "does this work," type things as well as discusses music, movies, pop culture, whatever. She has a Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. From what I've read about her she makes close to half a million dollars based on Youtube ads. So maybe vlogs are the way to go these days.
ReplyDeleteI've told you before and I'll tell you again. You really should offer an ad-free option for a small fee. You barely make any money on the ads and most people find them annoying.
ReplyDeleteSo let's say you take 5 bucks for an ad-free year. If the reader visits an average of two days out of three and you have the ads from your example earlier, that would tenfold the money you earn from each reader who chooses this option.
If you present this option as a way to get rid of the ads while greatly supporting you so you can keep writing, mixed up with comments on obnoxious ads and decaying prices illustrated with funny wrecks I believe quite a lot of people would choose to support you and pay to get rid of the annoyance called ads.
I've always wondered- Do RSS news readers rob bloggers of page views? I read dozens of blogs and the only way to keep track of them is through Feedly for me. I only click through to the actual blog if something doesn't load all the way (which seems to depend on the individual blog feed's settings).
ReplyDeleteI tried to respond to this yesterday, but I think the internet ate my comment. Jen won't get your pageview unless you click through from your reader (like you did here to comment). I like to use Feedly to gather up all the new blog posts from my favorite bloggers, but then I open each post in a new tab. That way the bloggers get my pageviews, time on site stats, and ad views. So many bloggers are giving amazing content away for free, so I like to give that little bit back.
DeleteIsn't it strange that we find it very logical to pay for a magazine in the shop but can only show our appreciation of quality blogs like CW and Epbot by clicking on ads that I don't see because of the ad blocker I installed? Because those obnoxious blinking ads take all the pleasure away from the reading.
ReplyDeleteI would be more than happy to put some money where my mouth is and subscribe/donate to the writer of my favorite blogs directly.
As soon as you set up a donation-button I will be the first to push it :-)
Jen, I second the motion for you to put a donate button on CakeWrecks and Epbot. You guys bring me so much joy with both websites; they are the only two I check every single day. I'd be happy to support you directly by making a monetary contribution through a donate button.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you should put that Amazon affiliate link that's on CakeWrecks on here, too. You can't just use the same links that you use for CakeWrecks? You'd have to set one up specifically for Epbot?
If anyone else wants to support Jen and John by using their Amazon affilitate links to shop, first go to the bottom of a CakeWrecks post, look for the appropriate link for where you are (different links for the US, Canada, and the UK), then click on the link. When the Amazon page opens up, make sure that you see "cakewrecks" in the URL and then BOOKMARK THE PAGE AS YOUR SHORTCUT TO AMAZON. That way, every time you click on your Amazon icon, you will automatically be shopping under the CakeWrecks affiliate link, and Jen and John will receive a small commission on your purchases. It costs you nothing at all extra and will add up for them.
Thanks, as always, for a look behind the scenes of blogging. It's so interesting for me. I often *think* I'd like to be a blogger, but I doubt that I have a strong enough constitution. I have so much respect for how you guys handle it all with grace, dignity, and dedication. Please keep up all your amazing work on both websites. They are often the brightest parts of my day, and I admire you and John so much. Thanks for making the web and the world a better place!
KW
My comment just evaporated as I was trying to post it... but I was going to say, I'd be interested in a sort of curated advertising, stuff that you think is cool, if you had a sort of gallery page here on Epbot. I'd visit it regularly, and pay to have my own Etsy jewelry (patronus necklaces, some steampunky stuff) advertised that way. You already do art and jewelry round-ups, and it would be sweet to have a collection of those kinds of things all in one place, along with corset-makers, costumers, props, and so on.
ReplyDeleteI agree fully with those who said you'd do well with a Patreon-style setup. I know that I personally would be more than willing to contribute to that!
ReplyDeleteI follow another blog that is specifically for embroidery. She went full time about 3 years ago, and supplements her small income from advertisers by offering PDFs of projects. Step-by-step, illustrated, directions for completing a project that she also takes us through in a series of blogs. They are about $20-$25 each, and apparently she makes some money from it. Just one more suggestion on how you could generate revenue. I so use the "Amazon" link on the CW site as often as I can.
ReplyDeleteLove your blogs, Jen.
Maureen S
I read the blogs that I read because I love the "voice" of the blogger. What I mean are the writers whose personality really comes through in their writing. Reading those types of blogs, like this one, make me feel like I've sat down with a quirky, funny friend for a cup of coffee and to hear about their latest adventure. I love blogs that make me smile or laugh out loud. Sure the ones where you learn something are great too, but some of us are just looking for a great story.
ReplyDeleteARGH! I hate the comments section on this because it always eats it the first time around. Always. Grrrrr.
ReplyDeleteYou have to love writing, and then you have to write about the things you love. When I first started, I had a very specific niche. As a result, I had a very small audience, and a lot of times I felt strangled by the confines of my niche as far as writing was concerned. When I started a new blog where I just wrote whatever weird, random thing came to me? That's when I started having good numbers. Now I have more views in a month than the previous blog had ever.
I will say I don't make any money off of it. Not a penny. But that's no longer my goal. When I started blogging, yes, I had dreams of being able to blog for a living, or get that book deal, or get internet fame. But blogging really in a way saved my sanity by giving me a reason to write. It makes me break through writer's block better than working on my book does because, 1) instant feedback (and at this point in time, yes, I still need validation. I'm totally okay with that) and 2) you develop an audience who is waiting for you to post. Even when I had times when I had little sabbaticals, I always had people asking me when I was going to post again. That's extremely gratifying, no matter how big or small your audience. But you have to do it for you first. If you don't love it, don't do it.
It drives me nuts when people talk about starting a blog to make money. That's approaching it arse-backwards and seems guaranteed to fail. Start a blog because you have something you are passionate about that you want to share, see how it grows and then monetise.
ReplyDelete